What’s Your Dream NWF?

Donate

What better way to close out the season than to imagine together what we hope the future of the National Wildlife Federation will look like? We’re closing out the season with NWF President and CEO Collin O’Mara and a familiar voice, Chanté Coleman (Senior Vice President of Equity and Justice). We will also hear reflections from folks across the federation staff to dream up the NWF of the future together.

Speakers

Chanté Coleman – Vice President, Equity & Justice
Collin O'Mara – President and CEO
Kaila Drayton – VP of Operations
Nicole Litwiller – Equity and Justice Storytelling Fellow
Staff Voices from Across the Federation

Note: This episode contains some explicit language.

Transcript

♫ Theme Music ♫

Chanté Coleman
When I first started in my role as Director of Equity and Inclusion many years back, you know, we had one person doing this job, and it was really being owned by the Equity and Justice Steering Committee. And now we can see the work being spread out across the organization. So that's what I'm most proud of, just, I always thought that what made us most successful is when this work started becoming co-owned and co-shared across many different people. And that's where we are now.

♫ Theme Music ♫

Kaila Drayton
Hello, everyone, and welcome to our very last episode of Seeds of Culture Change, a podcast where we're discussing the National Wildlife Federation's journey towards equity and justice. I'm Kaila.

Nicole Litwiller
And I'm Nicole, and we have been your two co-hosts for this season. So since this is our final episode of the season, I was wondering if you have any shows that you just loved the series finale of, or if you have any shows that you hated the series finale of.

Kaila Drayton
Here's the thing. This is gonna shock everyone and you're gonna have so many questions. I don't watch the last episode of the last anything. Isn't it crazy? I have no interest. I have zero interest. I have decided that I know exactly how it ends. It's not, it's really not a conscious decision. I'm not denying myself like, 'Oh, I really want to know how this ends.' I get to like midway, at least midway of the last season of something and I am just no longer interested. So the I think the only series that I watched up until the very end was Breaking Bad.

Nicole Litwiller
Okay.

Kaila Drayton
So I guess by default, that is my answer.

Nicole Litwiller
I mean, was it a good finale?

Kaila Drayton
I think so. You know, I also don't remember things very well. I could watch the same movie 100 times and act like it's the first time I've ever seen it. So, my memory as you have experienced is incredibly selective in what I pay attention to and what just goes through it like a sieve. So what what's your favorite ending?

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, well, I'm not like you. I need, I need-

Kaila Drayton
You need answers

Nicole Litwiller
-to have things wrapped up. I need answers. Like even if I'm watching a really, really crappy TV show or movie-

Kaila Drayton
You don't embrace non-closure, Nicole?

Nicole Litwiller
I have to watch it all. Oh, no. What does this say?

Kaila Drayton
Just kidding.

Nicole Litwiller
No, I would say, so, one of the really well done series finales that I've watched fairly recently is of The Good Place. It just had such a good finale, like weeping in the finale, which I love. Yeah, gives me all the feels. So good. I love that series finale

Kaila Drayton
That is amazing. Are you someone who is very on top of the latest, like the hottest new Netflix release? Or...

Nicole Litwiller
Sometimes, but sometimes I'm like, I wait for a couple of people to tell me that, like, this show is good before I spend my time watching it.

Kaila Drayton
It's so funny- for me it does the opposite. I have not seen a single episode of Game of Thrones.

Nicole Litwiller
I haven't either.

Kaila Drayton
Okay, okay, good, good. Good. I thought it was the only person on the planet. I've never watched the Kardashians. I've nev- whatever is popular, I can promise you I've never seen it.

Nicole Litwiller
Interesting.

Kaila Drayton
Promise you.

Nicole Litwiller
Okay, well, I feel like I need to convince you to watch lots of Netflix now, because I have some suggestions.

Kaila Drayton
If they're documentaries, I am on it.

Nicole Litwiller
Okay, good to know, good to know.

Kaila Drayton
Well, all that being said and completely unrelated to what we're talking about today. As we mentioned, this is our very last episode of the season and we will be joined by Chanté Coleman and NWF's very own CEO Collin O'Mara.

♫ Transition Music ♫

Nicole Litwiller
Welcome Collin and Chanté, we're so excited to have you on this final episode of the season. And I'm wondering if we can start out with some introductions. So if you could share your name, pronouns, and your role at NWF, and then just for fun your go to karaoke song and Collin I'll pass it over to you first.

Collin O'Mara
Collin O'Mara. I'm the CEO of the National Wildlife Federation and my pronouns are he, him, and his. And I don't know I'm gonna get in trouble. So like my, it is kind of embarrassing, my go to karaoke song has always been it's always been Take Me Home West Virginia, so Country Roads has been my my go to. It's kind of cliche.

Nicole Litwiller
It's a great go-to.

Collin O'Mara
It's served me well the last like, you know, year and a half negotiating with Senator Manchin. John Denver's a little cliché right?

Kaila Drayton
What's making me chuckle, Collin is that when, before when I've asked this question, people are like, 'oh gosh, I don't do karaoke' or 'I've never done it.' Collin's like 'listen, the last time I did karaoke we opened with this one it killed." So, I'm just picturing you.

Collin O'Mara
We've got that, we've got the 'We Didn't Start the Fire' thing, which is always a very white guy thing. I'll come back with, like, a little Redman Time 4 Sum Aksion occasionally if I want to like complete like screw with people, like, who said that, right.

Nicole Litwiller
Maybe we need to do a video series next where we ask random staff to sing their songs. Well, thank you for sharing that. Colin. And I'll pass it over to you. Shante

Chanté Coleman
Hello, my name is Chanté Coleman, my pronouns are she/her and they/them. I'm the Vice President of Equity and Justice at the National Wildlife Federation. And Collin, I don't know if you remember but we have karaoke together before on my birthday in St. Louis. Where you karaoked to Ring of Fire and I karaoked to Garth Brooks Friends in Low Places.

Nicole Litwiller
Well, one of these days I hope to be in a space where I get to experience this karaoke together. But Kaila, do you have a go to karaoke song?

Kaila Drayton
Yes, Ike and Tina Turner's version of Proud Mary. But then if I'm if I'm really gonna perform it, then I gotta go. The Tina Turner Beyoncé version.

Nicole Litwiller
Okay. Yeah.

Kaila Drayton
Full out. Full out.

Nicole Litwiller
I was waiting for the Beyoncé to come in. I assumed it would be there somewhere. But.

Collin O'Mara
Well does it come with a full dance routine though too?

Kaila Drayton
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Except I do both parts and I don't need backup. So, thank you for everybody who would volunteer. I'm good. Nicole, what would you be singing?

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, well, I am going to be the person who's like, I don't karaoke very much, because I don't I honestly don't know when the last time I've done karaoke was so maybe y'all need to come visit me and take me to some karaoke bar or something. But anything Lady Gaga, really. I really like her song Highway Unicorn. That's a real fun one. But anything from her Joanne album would be, would be a good go-to for me.

Kaila Drayton
Like that would be a good crowd pleaser. Everybody like singing along?

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah.

Kaila Drayton
So with that being said, thank you all for indulging us in your go to karaoke song. Moving now into kind of the last episode of the podcast and really looking towards the future. We've talked mainly up to this point about what NWF has gone through the steps we've taken in this equity journey to make the organization more equitable and just, but we're wondering what changes the two of you are most excited about or proud of? And Chanté, I'll start with you.

Chanté Coleman
Yeah, thanks, Kaila. So I would say what I'm most proud of is the fact that we have enough, we've done enough in this work to actually have a podcast, which is proof of that right now. We've captured so much of our history and our work over the last many years on this podcast, which I'm really excited about. When I first started in my role as Director of Equity and Inclusion many years back, it was just you know, we had one person doing this job, and it was really being owned by the Equity and Justice Steering Committee. And now we can see the work being spread out across the organization being held within the board being held with in many different departments, teams, regions, even in our affiliates, our affiliate organizations are really stepping up and starting to lead on equity. So that's what I'm most proud of just, I always thought that what made us most successful is when this work started becoming coowned and co-shared across many different people. And that's where we are now.

Kaila Drayton
Thank you. And, Collin, what stands out for you?

Collin O'Mara
Yeah, I mean, I think we still have a ways to go on our journey. But I think the fact that we're having real conversations, we have like real investment, that we have, you know, incredible leaders that have stepped up in the organization and, like Chanté said, is not the work of one person, that it really is, you know, kind of organization wide. is the aspiration and we're not quite there yet. And also the board level. I mean, on the on the on the staff side. You know, I mean, I think like I'm just so grateful to Chanté in particular for leading this work, but to have a vision for how to integrate the work across the organization. And then, you know, to say like, 'look, it's not enough to have an equity team that's doing the work in a silo, but we need to talk about equity competencies across like all managers and all people across the organization holding people accountable.' And we're trying to do a better job of that to make sure that those competencies are present, that they're growing, that, you know, if there's harms that they're being addressed, and again, we still have a ways to go. But the vision of having it be part of the fabric of the organization is on track to happen. We're not, you know, we're not quite there yet. And also just kind of the leadership team that we've been building, having more folks in leadership positions that have competencies. So it's not a separate part of the organization. But it's a must have had a nice to have, as we're hiring new positions as different folks retire or move on. And then I think the board too, I mean, Chanté and I were kind of going back and forth this the other day. I mean, I think the board really has, I mean, it's it's one of the most representative parts of the organization, if you'd look at it overall, it's you know, has had, you know, they've had board leadership that's been willing to make this a priority across multiple chairs at this point, you know, the DEIJ Committee, as they call it, that's been really trying to lead on the work that really has centered people and kind of humanity and the staff and really trying to like build a different way of doing committee work that's less transactional and more relational as they're trying to build a bigger vision. And the fact that this was like a major part of discussion for, you know, what future board leadership looks like. I mean, that wouldn't have happened five years ago. And now it's, again, it's a prereq. So that that leadership, that culture, that's kind of being built over time, where again, it's not the responsibility of just a single person of color on the board, it's a responsibility for everybody. And it's an evolution that I'm pretty excited about.

Kaila Drayton
Collin, we've talked a lot about the changes internally, but I'm wondering, if you have seen as a white man and a white man who leads the organization, what has changed for you outside of work? Are there things that you notice now that you never noticed before? Are there things that you pick up on that you're like, 'holy shit, that's racist?' Like, are there things that have? Have you noticed expansion and growth beyond just the professional setting?

Collin O'Mara
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I mean, I grew up in in Syracuse, where, at least my social circle and like a lot of my athletic circles, things like that, I was one of the few white guys - playing basketball a lot of black men, and just that culture. So I mean, I was more attuned to the racism that Black men experience with like policing or getting pulled over for just driving or being Black or, you know, just harassment I mean, I saw a lot of that growing up. I think I was less attuned to the kind of the historical and structural elements around the legal system, around economic systems around access to land, around kind of like the generational theft. I mean, I think some of those pieces that as, as I've gone deeper in the journey, kind of kind of understood more and read more and through more conversation, just understanding how stacked the deck is, right, and just those pieces. I also think like now, in my, in my marriage, I married, Krish and I got married six years ago now. You know, I mean, I'm in a personal environment where I'm often the only white person with a whole bunch of Sri Lankans or South Asians. And also just even seeing like the obstacles that immigrants face. And like, you know, Krish getting pulled over for being in the wrong neighborhood or her dad getting, you know, someone trying to take advantage of him because his English isn't quite right, and so trying to overcharge- and again, just the kind of systemic day to day, you know, offenses that occur, that are obviously part of the larger systems. So I think, you know, the, I've just become more attuned to the privilege I've faced - I've enjoyed - and also just kind of more committed to making sure I use that privilege to right some of these grievous racist wrongs.

Chanté Coleman
Yeah. And, Collin, I appreciate you saying that, because it's a trend that I've noticed about, you know, white folks reach out to me, sometimes, not very often, but sometimes I get some feedback. In fact, I was on a call the other day, and a staff person called me interested in thinking about how to embed equity into something that they were working on. And before we hung up, I helped out with that, before we hung up, she asked, she said, 'You know, I need to apologize to you about something.' And I was like, 'what do you need to apologize to me for?' Like we hadn't talked in a very long time. And she was like, 'when you first started working here, you came to one of our team meetings, and you introduced yourself, you talked about why this work was important to you like what you wanted to do your vision for everything, like you talked about racism very directly.' And she said she left that meeting, like just completely unconvinced that this was the direction that we should head in that we were, you know, creeping on mission because we weren't focused on wildlife. And she didn't really believe racism was actually a problem in the National Wildlife Federation, or in the world. And over the last few years, she talked about engaging in some of the learning opportunities that we've provided, you know, really being on this journey in the organization. And that's opened her eyes to the reality of the world. And she said she was just kind of her eyes were closed before and the journey with NWF really helped wake her up. And that was a really, it was a big moment for me. I don't often, you know, hear those stories. But I appreciate hearing that because it means that the work we're doing is working. It's not just for what's happening inside of the organization. It's not just learning for the sake of how it connects to our mission, but it's really learning to be better people for how we show up in the world as a whole. So I just really appreciated hearing that.

Collin O'Mara
Chanté, to that point, I mean, I just think I think I fell into the category of folks that was able to kind of hide behind privilege when things got uncomfortable in the past. So it's like, once you see it, right, it's everywhere, right? It's everywhere. It's constant. And like, you know, and how do you continue to kind of show up and fight against it, right, and kind of try to make progress. But I do think that the last few years, particularly given some of like, the kind of the violence, police violence, I mean, like, if you're not moved to action, after seeing some of that, right, like, I just I just don't, I think it's a, for me, like, it's almost like an inflection, right, about kind of where you stand in society. Right? If you're not if you're not on the side of significant change, given some of the just atrocities that we've seen. And for me, like, I think I wouldn't, I think because of the work that we're doing internally, right, I mean, I think that the being attuned to that right, was being externally is possible. When we can actually show up not just an ally, but more of a co-conspirator over time.

Chanté Coleman
Totally. Well and, I totally agree with that. And I think, you know, atrocities have always happened, this violence has always happened. 2020 was horrible. And it wasn't all too different than other things we've seen and experienced. And I think what happened and that we were able to, once when people were seeing that and were becoming very aware of what was happening in the world, because it was on the news, it was in front of all of our faces, NWF and the work we were doing really give folks an opportunity to channel that awareness into action, whether that was through reading the materials we were sending out, engaging conversations internally. I think sometimes it might be hard to figure out what to do. And there wasn't there was a to do at that point. It was like, alright, engage more in this work. Like, here's how, here's how you can do it, here's how you can make NWF a better place. So I wonder if that helped catalyze folks, too.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, I really appreciate those reflections. And I always appreciate the ways that folks have shown up on this podcast throughout the season in sharing their own personal journeys. And same goes for today. And so thank you so much for sharing about your own personal experiences so openly. And that kind of gets me into my next question, which is another kind of more personal question. But I'm wondering what some of the most significant lessons you've learned on this journey have been? And Chanté, I'll pass it over to you to start us off.

Chanté Coleman
Oh, well, thanks, Nicole, I think I'm really grateful that you both included this question because I think it shows that we've shifted from, at least in part from a culture of like accomplishing things to a culture of learning and growth, because that's something that we've, we've worked on actively. It's not- equity work can feel so much easily like failure if we just think about what we've accomplished. But if we think all the things that we make mistakes on and learn from and grow from, then it is, then we can really find success in the work. And I think one of the biggest things for me, in terms of learning, NWF has a really strong urgency culture, in terms of meetings, what we do, how we do it, we move very, very quickly as an organization. And I think after 2020, that summer, we really wanted to act quickly and provide learnings and especially for white folks in the organization who were asking, like, what can we do. And so our team embarked on a very ambitious plan to do a series of anti-racism trainings last year. And it was going to last about seven months with a training a month, and there was going to be peer cohorts, and all of these different topics in terms of fighting against racism, moving towards liberation. And we got to a point where one of our consultants called me and she's a woman of color, and she said, 'I can't do this anymore. I am so burned out, like we've been meeting non-stop, we've been planning non-stop. I am not even showing up like my best self, I can't do this.' And I was like, 'Well, what happens if we just don't do it?' Because our team was exhausted too. And so we decided to say no to something really big that was demonstrated as a need and the organization, we had to say no to that, because we were burned out. And so I think the biggest thing I learned there was: it's okay to say no to things, it's okay to draw boundaries. And it's also okay, and sort of a must to rest when you do this work. You have to find time to, to rest, to restore, to heal yourself. As a Black woman showing up to do this work every day, like when I go on vacation, I'll spend a week like really not thinking deeply about racism. And I'll be like, 'Oh, wow, I haven't really thought about this in several days.' And I feel better, because it's hard to be involved in this and thinking about it so deeply every day as a Black woman. So I think rest is really important. We've shifted a lot of our wellness practices to allow for more rest in the organization. And I think that's been a huge part of our ability to be as deep as we are now in the work.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think a lot of what you're naming here goes back to things that we've discussed earlier in the season around white supremacy culture. And I know, urgency is one of the tenants of white supremacy culture and shows up often in white-led organizations and white folks as well, and just our culture, it's what we are swimming in. And so it's something that I feel like I've been indoctrinated in. And I'm a young person. And yet I have this sense of urgency around, like needing to get things done. And when we give ourselves time to step back and allow ourselves the space to reflect and pause and make sure that we are doing well as human beings, we know that the work that comes from that will be all that much better, because of the intention that has gone into it in the first place. So yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that, Chanté. Collin, are there any lessons that you've learned over this journey that you'd like to share with us?

Collin O'Mara
I think there's, I think there was a shift that occurred as part of the E2LC learning series.

♫ Swooshing Sound ♫

Nicole Litwiller
Hello, it's Editing Nicole, again, for one last time this season. So just to clarify, E2LC stands for Equity and Environment Leadership Cohort. The goal of this program is to support environmental organizations in clarifying and integrating equity and justice values into their contexts. Okay, back to you, Collin.

♫ Swooshing Sound ♫

Collin O'Mara
Several of us participated in with Hewlett where a lot of the work in my early tenure was kind of related to Green 2.0, which was an effort to have organizations share their data, right, be very transparent about hiring, about retention, different levels, the board, and the like. And it was, in some ways, it was very, I don't know how to say this, it centered the white organizations, right, more than it centered the staff, right. And there was this weird disconnect, where, you know, no one was talking about culture or retention or the impact on people. And I had this kind of moment, when I was kind of listening to different stories as part of one of the cohorts. And it really kind of just sank in that like, you know, we were kind of tokenizing people trying to increase numbers, we're not creating a culture that folks could actually, you know, be their authentic self. And that kind of experience combined with the leaders of the Black ERG, under Kaila and Keith's leadership, where you have, you know, folks speaking for themselves saying, 'This is what we need,' right. And being very clear about it and taking on that extra burden to do it, it was kind of some amazing gift to the organization. But like that set of recommendations, and centering kind of human needs, wellness, making sure that you know, compensation was equitable, making sure that, you know, a lot of things that have gone unsaid for a long time were said and that they were acted upon. And I think for me, that learning journey from kind of, kind of- I remember asking our former HR staff, 'okay, what are our numbers,' versus asking the right question, which was like, you know, 'how was the staff doing?' Right? How are people doing? How are staff are color doing, how is Black staff doing? I think that evolution has been one that's incredibly important. I think the other thing, and again, like, I just think, if it wasn't, I mean, we're so much further on our equity journey, because of the Black ERG. And I think it's just it's an amazing thing. And there's still work to do there. But just, you know, Kaila's leadership that was just spectacular with Keith. On the other one, too, I guess it's also kind of a Kaila piece as well, which is just, you know, my dad used always say, you know, 'money talks and BS walks.' Like it didn't, the work didn't get real, right, in a lot of ways until we started investing, right? On Chanté's team, the work that Kaila has led with the investment process. I mean, we talk about all regions and all kinds of folks talking about equity, and some of it's been well thought out, and so maybe not as much, but having actual dollars attached to where we're trying to go. Having it being, you know, using unrestricted dollars for it, having it part of the baseline budget, have it not be an afterthought, leading with, you know, as we grow the organization, making sure that equity is centered in that in those investments, that had a huge change. And I just think organizations that tried to do this on a shoestring or as an afterthought just aren't going to succeed, you have to put your money where your mouth is. And I think that, you know, we're beginning to do that. And Kaila's thought leadership and elegance of leading that fairly complicated investment process, but driving values through an economic process is leading to transformative change. And also help point out some of the funding inequities between white-led programs versus you know, BIPOC-led programs, or leaders of color versus, you know, white staff. So I think all of that now has allowed us to make progress, which is something I continue to see every day that if you're not willing to invest, you're not going to make movement.

Nicole Litwiller
I feel like when I hear about other organizations, so much of the hesitancy is the money piece, and there's the scarcity mindset that is driving their actions. And I think shifting that to being willing to invest money and live more with a mindset of abundance or a growth mindset is really transformational. And Collin, I'm wondering, as the CEO of this organization, if you have any lessons around like, I mean, has this organization crumbled since we've been spending money on equity and justice? Like, I think the answer is no, but like, can you quell some of those fears for listeners who might be really afraid to spend money on equity work?

Collin O'Mara
I mean, so when, when we, when I started, we were functioning about a $70 million budget, if you look at what we were actually bringing in, not just what we were spending or spending at the time. And this year, we're gonna be close to 140 million. So the rate of growth is high and a lot of this restricted money. But a lot of the restricted money, the growth that's occurred is related to things in the equity space and kind of broadly defined, right, that could be placed based work in communities that could be tribal work, that could be, you know, work in individual programs, or... But I think, you know, it's, there has been this kind of zero sum, if somebody else is growing, that means somebody else is shrinking kind of mentality in a lot of organizations. But you know, 10 years ago, you said that, you know, the leader of all programs for the National Wildlife Federation would be, you know, Mustafa Santiago Ali with our fairly conservative, you know, history and everything else, that folks would have said, you were crazy. But there's an excitement, right? Because we're showing that, you know, you can care about, you know, natural resource issues and wildlife, and at the same time, you know, be authentically showing up in environmental justice and public health, right. And these aren't, like, mutually exclusive. But it's, I feel like I'm cribbing Mustafa, but you can't be a 21st century organization, unless you're, you know, kind of in the fight, right, you're not gonna be relevant in a few years, whether that's for membership, or issues, or funders, or whatever. And I think it's both the right thing to do. It's also the smart thing to do. And I think our growth and our impact, kind of across, across the country is significantly more effective now than it was several years ago. And it's only gonna get better as we become more, more equitable and kind of more of a leader in the justice fights.

♫ Transition Music ♫

Kaila Drayton
I feel like we could have an entire season dedicated to the lessons learned. And maybe we should, but I'm wondering what are the areas that we are still learning the most lessons in? What, what are the areas where we really have a ways to go as far as growth? And maybe framing it as an opportunity, right, the opportunity to grow in this equity and justice journey? Chanté, what do you see as some areas of improvement?

Chanté Coleman
Yeah, that's a wonderful question. So I think one of the main things that comes to mind when we talk about room for growth, a big opportunity we have is to deepen the understanding of the connection between racism and the work that we do at the National Wildlife Federation. So despite having been on this path for many years, we still get a lot of questions about how racism connects to this work. And whether doing race equity work actually aligns with our mission at the National Wildlife Federation. So the answer is: it is connected, it is deeply aligned. So I think if we really want to understand all of the dynamics in play, and we really want to fight against climate change, then we have to understand how the systems and structures are keeping things how they are, so that we can really work to disentangle and unpack and fight all of these things. We can't just fight climate change without fighting against racism. So I think until we really understand that, we're going to be held back from achieving our mission. I think that's probably one of the biggest opportunities we have in front of us.

Kaila Drayton
Collin, what are you noticing?

Collin O'Mara
I mean, I think one of the places that I want to spend more time, especially as some of these federal pieces, hopefully done behind us, is really trying to make sure that that we're carrying the work throughout the organization. And I think there's a lot of harms that occur in kind of different supervisory relationships, you know, folks that just don't have the level of competencies. As we're, as we're growing fairly rapidly right now, making sure that we're building hiring for culture make for hiring for competencies. You know, making sure that, you know, as folks are coming in during a pandemic, that there's still is level of human connectivity as well. Because I do think that the more that we can create kind of as safe as possible spaces for folks to have interactions, it's going to build relationships and trust. And at the same time, I don't want- I think it's unfair, that the burden continues to fall on staff of color a lot to do the quote, unquote, educating of white folks that aren't putting in the work. And so I think, you know, how we do that together in a way that, you know, shifts the burden. Nicole, you and I are, like, you know, doing our part to make sure that the competencies are going up, that it's not just the Equity and Justice Team's responsibility or, you know, folks of color to have double duty in addition to their regular jobs. I think that's like, that's kind of the next level of work. I mean, I want to get to a place where- no space is ever going to be completely safe. But there's still harms that are occurring because of a lack of competencies. And I think like we can significantly reduce that in the coming months and years in a way that folks can feel safe to show up and feel safe to say their truth, right and not have to worry about the, the impacts of staff with privilege harming them.

Kaila Drayton
We've talked a lot on this podcast about how equity and justice is a journey, and there's no real destination, right? Like you're, you're walking this path because you can and you should, but I think, to your point, Collin, when you were talking about the investment process, really recognizing that we're kind of in this interim phase, right? Like we're trying to push equity and justice to every corner of the organization. And so I look at the organization and I look at the investment process as kind of a step towards something bigger. Right? I think that there are a multitude of different approaches and tactics and strategies that we're working right now that are actually in line to lead to something bigger. For me, the investment request process is- and for listeners in the context of this doesn't matter, to be honest. But getting funding across the organization, I would love an NWF where an investment process doesn't exist because we don't need it. Because the way that we budget, and the way that we look at funds, and the way that we look at our structures across the organization, are all grounded in equity. And so we don't need these fail safes and these band-aids to try to correct a policy or a process or a procedure that was exclusive to begin with. And instead of redoing, and auditing, and reevaluating, and redesigning, we've just kind of put a patch on it and been like, you know, 'good enough, hope she holds' like, 'good enough for now.' So I think that we are growing in that direction, to try to get equity and justice into the roots of what we're doing, and not just kind of the frosting on the cake after we baked it.

Chanté Coleman
I love that you said that Kaila.

Nicole Litwiller
So I feel like this conversation is leading into our final question for you two, and our final question of the season, really nicely. And just to preface this, I have learned a lot from adrienne maree brown, and highly recommend that everybody follow her on social media and read their books and all of those things. But one of the themes that I feel like I've taken away from adrienne maree brown's work is just that we need to take time to imagine the world that we hope to create, because we can't create what we don't first imagine. And so that's really what the last question I have for you is getting at. And so my question is, what does your dream National Wildlife Federation look like? And Collin will pass it over to you.

Collin O'Mara
Yeah. And I think I'd like to kind of pick up where we're Kaila left off, which is that you know that there isn't a separate process, that kind of resource investments, by default, right, are expected to be grounded in the equity and justice work. And we're weaving that through the wildlife work and the communities work and the schools work, and the lands work community, that it's a part of the fabric of the organization, and the things that are the outliers, right, are the things that don't have it embedded and that those are the things that are either forced to evolve or changed, right, or removed. I think, I think that's I think and we're on that path. I mean, I think I do think that the investments are an important first step, I do think that the new strategic planning process is going to be important, by having a foundation so and again, it's not a it's not an afterthought, it's not, it's not a siloed thought, it's a through line, that the equity justice work is kind of an underpinning of the organization. And it's an expectation of the organization, and then that there's not a tolerance for work that isn't grounded in, kind of, authentic relationships and community and like principles of equity. And so, you know, I think my vision is that it just becomes so embedded in our DNA and our fabric that it's enduring, and that it's not based on any individual leader or individual board composition, that you know, when, you know, 50 years from now, when they don't know our names, or, you know, the folks that follow us, but they see us as an organization that's, you know, at this moment in time, at a clear commitment and actually demonstrated, you know, action to be on the kind of the right side of justice, find the right side of history. And using the incredible privilege we have is the National Wildlife Federation, with our all of our relationships and all of our access for justice, that we're hopefully we've addressed the climate crisis better because of that, hopefully, you know, folks can actually breathe the air and drink the water and we have more critters on the landscape because of it. But that we're more successful, because we're actually, actually living our values.

Nicole Litwiller
Sounds like a beautiful place.

Chanté Coleman
That sounds like a wonderful place. And I think the interesting part about that place is I don't have a job there. Because my job is to make sure we're centering equity and justice in everything we do. But I completely agree. And I think, as we work to get there it would be- Another vision is, is that our mission really starts to reflect though all the work that we're doing and who we want to be. And I think the way our mission is written currently, it's really focused on wildlife and it's a bit limiting for us. And I think we have shifted a lot of our programmatic work our internal practices, cultural practices, HR practices, toward people, toward wellness, toward, you know, we just like, we have a lot of love in the organization. Like we wouldn't be doing this work if we didn't genuinely love and care for each other. And so just having a mission that really reflects centering on people and our work with people I think would be really, really important. And that we all really see ourselves as a part of this journey, like as Kaila said, it's about the journey, not about the destination. That we all really see ourselves as a part of this work and Collin, that your liberation is directly tied up with mine. And that in order for us to liberate each other, like we must liberate ourselves. And that's just the reality of this work that everything's intertwined. So, that's my vision.

♫ Transition Music ♫

Kaila Drayton
So much gratitude to Chanté and Collin for joining us on our last episode of the season, and as they stated, we have done so much work have accomplished so much and still have so far to go. Nicole, in reflecting on this season as a whole, what is your biggest takeaway?

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, wow, that's a hard question. Because we've covered, it feels like we've covered a lot in this season. I think I just feel so grateful for our guests, and the way that all of them showed up vulnerably and wanting to share openly about their own experiences. And I'm particularly thinking about our episode on healing and repair and accountability. And that is one that will really stick with me, because I think we all have ongoing journeys around these things, and just hearing stories from people who have been on this journey and done so much self reflection, and just learning from their own journeys, and how I can apply that in my own life was just really meaningful. And I just, I was really grateful for the way that Lisa and Zach shared so openly about their own ongoing journeys.

Kaila Drayton
That was one of my favorite episodes too, again, as you said, for the vulnerability. And I'm also really grateful to be able to present this podcast in a very candid manner. I think, Nicole, you and I had said if we, if we have to paint this very rosy picture of what equity and justice has looked like at NWF, then we're not interested in doing the podcast because we want to speak very truthfully about the lessons learned and the journey and the path that NWF has taken and the missteps, as well as the triumphs, and I'm so, I'm so happy that we've been able to do that. And as you said, I'm so grateful to the guests who we've had on the podcast, who were also willing to go there with us, and to, to really speak, speak their truth about what their experience has been and in some ways to speak truth to power. You would want to share now that you're more or less a year in, what are your hopes and dreams for NWF?

Nicole Litwiller
I think Collin and Chanté did cover a lot of what I dream for this organization - we've done the work and we've integrated equity and justice into every part of the organization and a specific Equity and Justice Team is no longer needed. I think I definitely agree with that as well. I really hope that we can become a place that navigates through conflict well. I think there are a lot of times where we just really struggle to have hard conversations. And again, back to the accountability piece, where we struggle to hold folks accountable in ways that center all of our own humanity. And I would really love to see NWF become a place that has the tools and is able to move through conflict in ways that honors the shared humanity of all of us. I also would love to see much more shared power. I think right now the hierarchy is really strong at NWF in multiple ways. And I think we reflected on this earlier on in the season as well. But NWF has become a much more racially diverse organization. However, thinking about how does that racial diversity show up within top levels of leadership. It doesn't look quite the same as the larger representative organization. And so I would like to see shared power and ways that folks like me, as a Fellow, have access to higher levels of power and influencing the ways that decisions are made. Because I fully believe that folks at the bottom of the hierarchy have a lot of really great ideas for how to move things forward for organizations. So I would also just like to name that.

Kaila Drayton
100%. 100% agree.

Nicole Litwiller
What does your dream NWF look like?

Kaila Drayton
Yeah, I would love to imagine an NWF where people who look like me can show up in their full authenticity. I have been called brave a number of times. And I envision an NWF where no one has to be brave. No one has to be courageous in speaking up for what is right. You know, I'm not, I'm not an EMT, I'm not a first responder I, in you know, pre-pandemic days, I sat in a cubicle, and I looked at spreadsheets all day. So I, I don't feel like I should have to be brave in order to go to work. And I would love for any Black staff, Indigenous staff, Latinx, people of color to be able to show up in this organization with their full voice and their full self and not be labeled brave for doing it.

Nicole Litwiller
I love that. Yeah, imagining that place gets me really excited. I'm excited for it, we're gonna bring in.

Kaila Drayton
We're gonna bring it. We want to thank everyone who tuned in and listened to the whole season. If you haven't listened to the whole season, please go back. Don't deny yourself the treat that is every single episode. So much gratitude goes out to everybody who has listened to the podcast and everyone who has put work behind getting this to its final product. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Nicole Litwiller
Yes. And so to close out the season with y'all, we have a little bonus segment that we're going to finish out the episode with today. And so in the segment, you're going to hear from voices, some that you've already- might be familiar with some that you haven't heard from before. And we've asked the question to NWF staff, 'what does your dream NWF look like?' So join us in imagining that together with other NWF staff. Thanks again, for your support throughout the season.

♫ Music begins, followed by voices layered on top ♫

My dream NWF...

Keith Ward
I want people to be excited about being here.

Melissa Gusdorf
A place where everyone feels supported and empowered to make a difference.

Becky Conway
This is the first job in my professional career where I feel seen and supported as a human more than an employee.

Keith Ward
Because they know no matter if their title is the president of this organization, or they are a fellow that their voice matters.

Melissa Gusdorf
A place where everyone has a seat at the table.

Keith Ward
And any input that they have, will have a direct effect on the direction on which this organization will head to

Anita Singh
That we actually value compassion and ethics over what is traditionally valued in a hierarchical structure and in capitalism.

Rebeca Villegas
A dream National Wildlife Federation would be a representation of this nation.

Keith Ward
We all should agree that you want to have a place to where we all matter.

Anita Singh
I don't think that an ideal NWF is the absence of conflict, but rather that everybody here has the skills to deal with conflict generatively.

Brendon Barclay
Question 'What is your dream of the National Wildlife Federation look like?' Manages diversity by channeling the insight and creativity that comes from a diverse workforce.

Keith Ward
We create more space for community and fellowship, brainstorming and visioning. Give people the opportunity to be creative. A space where people can feel that they can be vulnerable, not just with their teams, but with know their larger departments, their offices, the organization as a whole.

Anna Brunner
It looks like an organization that has truly transformed to understand that people and wildlife are fundamentally interconnected.

Multiple Voices
My dream NWF...

Andrea Auguiste
is one that recognizes that anti-racism and equity and justice are critical and frankly the answer for the future of our planet.

Rebeca Villegas
We are all connected and until we understand and know that and actually make a commitment and change, we're not going to, we're not going to win on the climate crisis.

Les Welsh
My dream NWF is grounded solidly in what the Hawaiians I work with call your kuleana for the ‘Āina - your responsibility for the land that feeds you and support you.

Anna Brunner
And so we should care about the lives and really the thriving of communities that are not a part of our own.

Becky Conway
I envision a more intentionally connected NWF, both internally and in the communities we serve, where the success stories of each team and programming are shared far and wide.

Tiffany Jones
I would love to things: NWF to have a Youth Advisory Council, as well as a community based, like grassroots folks, advisory council as well.

Hillary Fenrich
I'd love to see NWF take a really hard look at how it's showing up in terms of looking at staff and their workloads and the demands that are placed on them.

Becky Conway
Would be the each staff person has the necessary support and flexibility to make those mental breaks from work an accessible, new standard.

Anita Singh
NWF would not be controlled by money that is coming from the very corporation that then destroys the environment and the wildlife that we are purporting to support.

Natalie Cohen
I'd love to see NWF become some sort of grant-maker organization and actually passing through dollars directly to communities and investing directly into our on the ground projects.

Anna Brunner
I want the NWF of the future to care about young folks who have visions for the future and will inherit what we leave behind.

Brendon Barclay
Bring a generation of allies in its entirety to the work the National Wildlife Federation is here to do for people and for wildlife.

Les Welsh
Inviting of new fresh ideas, bringing in warriors that are young and old, and from all different perspectives.

Melissa Gusdorf
My dream NWF looks like one where my future children will be proud to say their mom worked there.

Keith Ward
And we'll be cultivating a culture for where, you know, everybody gets to show up and be themselves authentically. Nobody has to navigate, you know, nobody has to code switch. You know, you can be you in all the spaces that you're in. And that you can feel welcome in all the spaces that you want to be in. You know, it's just one foot in front of the other. It's completely doable, just whether or not people want to come and join the party.

Brendon Barclay
That's my dream.

♫ Outro Music ♫

Nicole Litwiller
This podcast is created and hosted by Kaila Drayton and Nicole Litwiller. It is produced by Nicole Litwiller. Stephen Angello is our phenomenal editor and audio engineer. Thank you so much for all your hard work this season, Steve. All the music you hear throughout the podcast is composed by Luke Litwiller. Luke, we are so grateful to have your beautiful compositions as part of this podcast. In this final episode, we'd like to specifically thank some additional people who have supported this podcast in various ways throughout its production. To the Equity and Justice Team - Chanté Coleman, Anna Brunner, Kasandra Richardson, Elizabeth Lillard, and Rachel Flores - thank you for your thought partnership throughout the creation of this podcast. And an extra shout out to Chanté, who has supported and led this equity work from its early stages. Thank you to Robert Watkins, Dana McNamara and Julian Bullock for supporting in planning and executing the podcast promotion. So much gratitude to Michelle Collins for designing our beautiful logo. Thank you, Alyssa Oshiro and Mike Saccone for your collaboration at various stages in thinking through communication strategies. Thomas Cluderay and Ben Kota, thank you for taking the time to review each episode before its release. We are so grateful to Marissa Specioso and Joan Biddle for their work and getting this podcast a beautiful home on NWS website. Thank you to Patience Kamau, Mandela van Eeden, and Drew YoungeDyke for helping us newbie podcasters figure out what the heck we're doing. Thank you to Keith Ward, Anna Brunner, Anita Singh, Andrea Auguiste, Becky Conway, Hillary Fenrich, Melissa Gusdorf, Natalie Cohen, Brendan Barclay, Tiffany Jones, Rebecca Villegas, and Les Welsh for helping us imagine together what a future National Wildlife Federation can look like. Thank you to all of our guests throughout the season for sharing your wisdom, insight and experiences with us. And finally, thanks to you, listener for following along with us this season. We are so grateful. If you have any reflections or comments you'd like to share with us, please send an email to seedsofculturechange@nwf.org. Please visit www.nwf.org and click the donate button if you would like to financially support the National Wildlife Federation's work. And don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe so that other agents of organizational change can find this podcast. Thanks for listening. Now go plant some seeds of change.