Wellness is Counter-Cultural

Donate

Prioritizing wellness is one significant way that the National Wildlife Federation has been approaching equity work. In this episode, we’ll explore the ways that NWF has been prioritizing employee wellbeing and consider the steps that still need to be taken with guests Hillary Fenrich, Tiffany Jones (Carey), and Natalie Cohen.

Speakers

Hillary Fenrich – Manager, Tropical Forests & Agriculture
Tiffany Jones (Carey) – Education and Engagement Manager
Natalie Cohen – Senior Conservation Programs Coordinator
Kaila Drayton – VP of Operations
Nicole Litwiller – Equity and Justice Storytelling Fellow

Note: This episode contains some explicit language.

Transcript

♫ Theme Music ♫

Hillary Fenrich
When we're talking about wellness, or we're talking about rest, and we're talking about this shift at NWF, we have to recognize that that's counterculture to the United States culture and it might be difficult, but rest and wellness and a healing journey is essential parts of what we're trying to do.

♫ Theme Music ♫

Nicole Litwiller
Hello, and welcome back to Seeds of Cultural Change, a podcast where we're discussing the National Wildlife Federation's journey towards equity and justice. My name is Nicole.

Kaila Drayton
And I'm Kaila.

Nicole Litwiller
And we are your two co hosts for this season. Kaila, how's it going today?

Kaila Drayton
I am doing well. Although I feel a little fiery today. I feel like yeah, everything's just been a rant. So buckle up, everybody. I have no idea what's about to come out of my mouth today.

Nicole Litwiller
It's where the best content comes from. Let's be real.

Kaila Drayton
How are you, Nicole?

Nicole Litwiller
Doing all right. Yeah, I have had kind of like a hectic day from meeting to meeting. And it's one of those days where none of the meetings are related. So I have to like I shift my mind every time I'm into a different meeting. But it's mostly been really good stuff. Good conversations. So having a pretty solid day.

Kaila Drayton
I'm not gonna lie to you. That's a little bit how I feel when I come into our podcast recording days. I'm like, Nicole, which episode is this? Okay, got it. Alright, we're good. It just happens sometimes. But today, we're going to be talking about wellness. And in my typical fashion, I don't want to talk about all the good things about wellness. Nicole, I want to know, what annoys you? What is something that has been marketed now as wellness that you're like, that is so annoying, or ridiculous? Oh, please let me know.

Nicole Litwiller
I think I need some time to think about that. And I would love to hear your answer to that first, because it seems like you might have a couple of things that come to mind.

Kaila Drayton
Oh, I mean, pretty much everything. I, I guess I get annoyed with wellness as it's marketed as like, spa days, and like, just do a yoga class, which I that's all well and good. I'm not shitting on anybody's yoga, or spa day. But it starts to feel a little exclusive. After a while. It's certainly exclusive with like, you know, am I really gonna go pay the $180 for a massage? I don't- Is that how much they cost? I don't actually get massages. See, I hate it so much that I don't actually that I don't actually go. I think I'm more, I'm more inclined to talk about the pieces of wellness that don't often get brought up or that you're not going to see anybody post on Instagram, which is the like the self work to self reflection, the really examining yourself and how you show up. So I think it's annoying. I'm tired of seeing your Instagram posts of how you're pretending how good your life is. Have you thought of what annoys you about wellness yet?

Nicole Litwiller
I think so. I think I think the Instagram wellness generally, like the Instagram image of self care. Like if I was to type that into my search bar on Instagram, I can almost guarantee what image would come up. And I feel like the part that annoys me the most is maybe how exclusive the body type is of the image of wellness. It just feels like it's a really, yeah, not inclusive culture of all body types. And that feels very annoying to me.

Kaila Drayton
I think that you are much more eloquently perhaps naming what really bothers me as well. And it is. It is really exclusionary. Right. Like often I see wellness marketed to white people, specifically white women.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, yeah.

Kaila Drayton
And so I wonder about what does wellness look like not in some kind of like cis heteronormative context? I think about people who identify as male. I think about folks who identify as black men, for example, where's the wellness advertising for them? Yeah. And then to your point, what bodies are being shown there's different sizes of bodies, there's different skin colors, there's different abilities. And not a lot of that shows up. So yeah, so thanks for making valid my angry complaints. Anyway, today's conversation with our guests, we have three guests today we have

Nicole Litwiller
Big news.

Kaila Drayton
Tiffany, Natalie and Hillary and they are going to be sharing their perspectives about what wellness means, what it means to them personally, and what they have experienced at NWF.

Nicole Litwiller
Really excited to share this interview with y'all.

♫ Music Transition ♫

Kaila Drayton
All right, y'all so excited to be in community with all of you today. Thought we could go around, maybe share your name pronouns, and then your favorite summertime wellness activity. And Hillary, I will start with you.

Hillary Fenrich
Thanks, Kaila. Hi, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here. My name is Hillary Fenrich. My pronouns are she, her, hers. I work on our international team here at the National Wildlife Federation. And I also co-lead the Community of Care Committee, which is all about promoting authentic community within NWF. And my favorite summertime wellness activity is blowing bubbles with my nephew. We get really good at this during summertime. And we run around barefoot and it's honestly the best and you are all invited.

Kaila Drayton
Do you have like a specific bubble recipe? Have you gotten to the point where you're like, you know, the packaged stuff is no good, I'm making my own.

Hillary Fenrich
Actually, So my nephew's parents, my brother and his wife, are PhDs in engineering. So with material sciences. So she has got it down, my sister in law, the exact recipe that she uses. So yes, I don't I don't know if I have the proprietary ingredients. But she has the ratios down.

Kaila Drayton
Absolutely. Sure, sure, sure. I love it. I love it. Tiffany, I'll pass it over to you.

Tiffany Jones
Absolutely. Hi, everyone. My name is Tiffany Jones. My pronouns are she, her, hers. And I am the Education Engagement Manager out of the Great Lakes Regional Center at NWF. And my summertime activity, I just got a new bike so I go the I ride to coffee shops like in the morning with my little buggy in the front and I have like my phone like I have a great band playing in the background. I have my iced coffee. It is glorious. And my coffee shop is like about two blocks away and I just feel like the cutest girl and I'm just I'm just loving it my buggy my pink bike. It's great. So I've been loving that as my little wellness summertime check in with myself.

Kaila Drayton
I love it so much. I love it. Also, okay, Tiffany Jones, like you're gonna slip that in.

Tiffany Jones
Ya know what I'm sayin'? It's a wife! It's a wife!

Kaila Drayton
For anyone who knows Tiffany, Tiffany Carey, just in case folks are confused, is now Tiffany Jones. Awesome. And congratulations.

Nicole Litwiller
Congratulations.

Kaila Drayton
And Natalie, over to you.

Natalie Cohen
Thanks. I'm so happy to be here today. My name is Natalie Cohen. I'm the Senior Coordinator of Conservation Programs in the Mid-Atlantic Regional Center. I live in Baltimore City and I have the honor and pleasure of really leading our on the ground conservation initiatives in Baltimore and Philadelphia and Wilmington, Delaware, and my favorite summer wellness activity. I've really been enjoying my summer morning routines and drinking my cup of coffee on the front porch before it gets too hot and before the sun really starts beating down on me and just taking some reflective moments out there with my pup and just starting my day off, you know, sitting out in the sunshine.

Kaila Drayton
Awesome. Nicole, how are you celebrating wellness this summer?

Nicole Litwiller
Great question. One of my like, go to wellness activities that I love during the summertime is making fresh mint tea with the mint leaves from my garden. Always so good to both make and drink. What about you Kaila?

Kaila Drayton
I like anything that involves water although I'm not like the sit out at the beach type of person. So I'm actually really thinking I used to love the sprinkler as a kid. And I was thinking of getting one but obviously for the dogs because I don't have children but here's my thing. If I get this sprinkler, and these bitches are enthusiastic and grateful. It's, you know what I mean? Like it's gonna be ruined. And so I kind of stay in this like, maybe I should, maybe I shouldn't. So maybe a summertime activity will be treating the dogs to sprinkler. I will keep you all posted.

Tiffany Jones
Please.

Nicole Litwiller
Yes, photos, please.

Kaila Drayton
All right. Well with that, Nicole, I kick it over to you.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, sounds good. Thanks for that check in question that leads us in really well to the topic today that we're here to discuss together, which is wellness. And so to start off our conversation together, I'd like to just ask what wellness means to you. Why is it important that we talk about it and prioritize it? And Tiffany, I'm going to pass it on over to you to start us off.

Tiffany Jones
Sounds good. I've been reflecting on this for a little bit. And I think I have my own definition of this. So I would love to share it with you all. But for me, wellness is an active journey of finding people, place, things that help rejuvenate and fill my cup with holistic strength, courage, grounding and joy to be able to serve and pour into myself and others. And that's kind of my holistic, comprehensive wellness definition. But I think it's also by convention this too just feeling seen and valued through trust-building, truth-telling, safety, authenticity, power sharing, and just value alignment. So that can be again with people, places or things. I think that's how I've been reflecting on these last few days.

Nicole Litwiller
I love that. Thank you. Yeah.

Tiffany Jones
How about y'all?

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, Natalie, let's go over to you.

Natalie Cohen
Yeah, you know, wellness, to me is a holistic representation of mind, body, spirit, soul. And it's also the ability encouraged to be my fullest, most authentic self. And like Tiffany said, it's really people-centric, and, you know, really stopping to enjoy the little things. And you know, I literally stop and smell the flowers on my walks. And, you know, just finding and seeking joy is, you know, what life is all about. Society is, you know, constructed to keep us complacent and restricted. And there's just so much more to life than that. And really tapping in and leaning into your personal well being is so important.

Nicole Litwiller
Thank you for sharing that.

Hillary Fenrich
I think to me, wellness is very similar, it takes like pieces from what both of you have said, but I think about it as maintaining a current within myself of self value, and self care, and recognizing what I need as a human being to survive and thrive in this life. And I think wellness is something that your work and your family and your friends can support you on, but your wellness journey, of course, looks different for everybody, I believe. And I think it's really essential to talk about wellness, because as you were saying, Natalie, it goes overlooked, or it becomes devalued, especially in the United States society, or it's promoted inauthentically, but it's it's like the core of sustainability, the ability to sustain yourself.

Nicole Litwiller
Yes, 100%.

Kaila Drayton
I love all of those reflections. And I'm so glad Hillary that you mentioned self value. Because I think it's not something that I hear a whole lot when we talk about wellness. And I think that self value piece kind of gets to the ugly side of wellness and self care. So we talk about spa days and taking time off of work and the things that that bring us joy. And sometimes you have to do really hard self reflection to get to that joy. And I feel like that's the piece, that gray area, the ugliness, that folks don't often want to talk about. But as we talk about wellness, and we talk about wellness in its entirety, the good, the bad, the ugly, how do you all feel that wellness is connected to equity and justice? And Natalie, I'll start with you.

Natalie Cohen
Sure, thanks, Kaila. So, you know, speaking from an on the ground coordinator based in Baltimore, the work we do is really hard and I experience and my colleagues experience burnout at an all time high right now, as we speak. And it's really working in these dis- intentionally disinvested communities and building trusting and authentic relationships is requires emotional labor, physical labor of actually putting plants in the ground and walking and exploring and envisioning beautiful green spaces and the what ifs and you know, it's... I see equity and justice weaved through all of my programs here at NWF and being kind of the face of NWF boots on the ground, I think it's really important to be sure that folks like myself feel seen and recognized and respected. Because a lot of the times I feel like the work that I do goes kind of unseen and the type of work that I do and that Tiffany does, deserves fair compensation as well. And like financial wellbeing which plays into overall wellness as well. But I, that was a lot. So I'll I'll pass the mic.

Kaila Drayton
Same question to you, Hillary, especially in your involvement with the Community of Care. How does prioritizing wellness counter white supremacy culture?

Hillary Fenrich
Yeah, thanks, Kaila. I think for me, part of it is this recognition that we live in a society that's built right now in the United States on institutional racism, capitalism. And we have to recognize that there are some folks with certain identities that are facing nonstop challenges, whether that is direct or hidden challenges on their path to wellbeing, in their journey of wellbeing. So thinking about BIPOC folks, LGBTQ, women. And as like an example of when I was like processing this question, just thinking through one piece of it. So I want to clarify, I am not Indigenous, I am a white woman, just because you can't see me on this podcast. And I when I'm thinking about like a wellness journey for myself, and how that journey might look different for others. If I'm an Indigenous woman whose ancestral lands in the United States have likely been stolen, I'm probably consistently encouraged to share my voice. But when I share my voice, the system doesn't listen to me. But I keep facing that ask to share my voice. I'm only getting paid 57 cents to every dollar that a white man gets. And for whatever reason, that 57 cents doesn't go as far as a dollar in the United States capitalistic society. And so then it leads to accessibility questions about wellness. So when you're talking about wellness, and you're thinking about this system that we're living in, and you're thinking, Okay, how does wellness show up for this person in this example, for instance, just thinking through when I'm thinking about wellness, I'm thinking about fresh, organic vegetables from the market, potential spa days, like you'd mentioned, Kaila, or like trips with friends where I can go somewhere and be with my friends, and like comfy socks. All of those things are things that have money attached to them, unfortunately. And so that 57 cents to a dollar, that a white man makes, for instance, it just makes it harder. And that's not even to talk about time equity, and having the time for myself if I have to work additional hours, because my money is not going as far. I think all of that is just important to keep in mind when we're talking about the system that we're living in. So like to me, wellness is intimately tied to equity and justice issues that are showing up every day. At NWF, but also in this larger community in the United States that we're living in.

Kaila Drayton
Absolutely. Tiffany, your reflections on the connection between wellness and equity?

Tiffany Jones
Yeah, let me take a breath in. I immediately go into, you know, the emotional labor and fighting for communities and showing up authentically, but also working for a white-led old conservation organization on the ground at the same time. So as a Black woman, and I'm a woman of color working in cities such as Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo, Grand Rapids, just to give context, I think there is this wrestling every day of being full and being able to fill myself up but also being at the frontlines of seeing systemic injustices of redlining of environmental justice issues, COVID, right, flooding, all these things that we know these communities are facing and operating as Tiffany, but then putting on the hat of NWF, National Wildlife Federation. I think that is a daily decision of sometimes having to wrestle with my employer around let me not do this because the community needs X. But in my job description, there is a deadline or there are boundaries and ways that I have to show up in my own employee hat. So I just want to recognize when we are talking about being our fullest selves and showing up fully, the compartmentalization is harmful and it creates that burnout but also the separation from self and this identity crisis even of how you want to present yourself to different people. Which goes into code switching, tokenism a lot of different things that do not allow me to feel whole. So feeling whole, feeling authentic, being open is really this idea of not being transactional, but building these authentic connections, these authentic relationships that are not perpetuating colonial land use terms, tokenism, like I said, the white savior complex, I can be a Black woman, but still perpetuating white savior complex in the way that I do my programming. But who is valuing and who was standing up and advocating for the people doing that frontline work, while this whole system of conservation is still rolling. So I kind of, in the analogy of a big wheel, small wheel, medium wheel, if you're the small wheel going against the big wheel, but the big wheel's like 'Well, we, we really want to appreciate you, we really want to value it,' but you're seeing things on your level. But that connection is not happening. There's a huge disconnect with that. So I just wanted to bring up a little bit of a challenge on myself, but also, this idea of showing up fully to the work and being able to be your fullest self in it. And who is keeping each other accountable for that kind of process.

Kaila Drayton
I think what you share Tiffany is really important as we talk about authenticity, and how people of color and us being Black women are able to show up in the workplace. But I'm also wondering if on top of that, you know, the three of you are programmatic staff, which means that there's an added complexity when it comes to funding, deliverables, the expectation of funders, and I'm wondering if you feel like that also adds a different layer and something else that you have to navigate?

Tiffany Jones
Absolutely. Money never matches authenticity, trust relationship building, I think that is the conflicting system that Hillary you brought up, right? Capitalism, systemic racism, all these big systemic things that we talk about, don't match the kind of world we want to live in the way that we want to show up. And I think asking people, 'how are you, how's your family,' attending celebrations in the community outside of your work hours, right, like showing up and knowing their phone number. Some people feel comfortable texting me versus calling my office phone on Zoom. And so making those choices every day to go, some people call it above and beyond and I don't think that I think it actually is me showing up. And if I didn't do that, even if I'm not paid, I'll still do it. Because I'm Tiffany. And that's my value system. That's what I lead with. So my grant deliverables is not always the kind of transformational change that I'm doing in the community or I'm trying to do in the community, those don't always match up. But people say, 'Oh, good job, you met these checklists.' But we're talking about equity and justice work and these checklists that we strive to do that checklist doesn't mean anything, if lives aren't changed, communities are not changed. So I think that's the transformational work is the goal. And that is not usually measured by anything with a pencil pen, Grant deliverable, or even funding. So that's just a something I want to bring up. I'll turn it to Natalie and Hillary.

Natalie Cohen
Yeah, and to continue with what Tiffany is saying, as programmatic staff, about 98% of our programs are grant funded. And so that means we are constantly seeking and fundraising for our programs and our salary, and pass through dollars, because we're always working in partnership, obviously. And so just getting the funders to even understand the importance of time and relationship building. But then on a more positive note, I love my job the most when I'm in community. And when I was in the garden yesterday morning and Druid Heights, we have a nature play space there. We installed it in 2019. Has rain gardens, native pollinator gardens, and a labyrinth and a hopscotch and we've stayed involved and we're leading biweekly maintenance there. There was about 15 of us and it just it was an absolute perfect morning in the garden and it filled my cup. My wellness comes from being in community and not necessarily being behind the desk, talking with funders or partner organizations, but actually our neighbors and real human beings.

♫ Music Transition ♫

Nicole Litwiller
I really love how we're just like diving right in and both talking about systemic wellness, which I think is not often something that is highlighted when we see self care come up on our social media feeds, but and then also talking about some of those other maybe more Band-Aid level wellness initiatives. And I'm wondering if we could talk a bit about NWF's approach to wellness. How is NWF approaching wellness? Are we? What are some of the ways that we've been tackling this as an organization? And Hillary, I'm gonna pass it over to you to start us off with this question.

Hillary Fenrich
Sure. So something that I was just reflecting while listening to you, Tiffany, Natalie and your perspectives on this is I think this is a really good moment thinking about funding and grant deliverables and how a number of us at NWF are funded. Thinking, what is the challenge here? And a huge challenge is thinking beyond grant deliverables. NWF has a mission, we have a vision, and how do you make sure that you are plugging into that mission and vision long term while also looking at grant deliverables, of course, and recognizing and challenging our funders to say, 'We need time built in for relationship building, in order to really do the work that we need to be doing.' That's not just for grant deliverables. But that's for sustainability of the movement to go back to that. That is beyond grant deliverables that's beyond the end of the grant. That's really getting back to like the NWF mission and values. And I think that's a huge challenge for NWF. And that's something that we can rise to the moment, we need to really talk about it at NWF. And in terms of wellness, which I also think is a challenge that NWF has been on this journey, I can really recognize that especially the last two years or so, NWF has been trying to support enabling conditions is what I'm thinking about, for staff to have space and time and resources for their wellness journey. A few ideas that I was thinking off the top of my head, we've had half day Fridays since COVID began, there's a crisis policy which gives time and resources for staff who are experiencing some sort of crisis. And then we also have unlimited wellness days. But I think it's really important that with those benefits or those wellness initiatives, it's still a journey. It's a great start. But now the next step is NWF has to evaluate the actual impact of these initiatives, and the accessibility for all staff to really play in to those initiatives and really take on those wellness benefits. You can have amazing benefits, but if not all staff can use them, then it actually creates inequity within NWF culture, and I think that we might see that, but we can we can dig a little bit more into that in a bit.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing all of that. Other reflections, Natalie?

Natalie Cohen
Well, of course, we all love our half day Fridays. And I was so happy to see they were going through the end of 2022. So yes, thank you for that. And that TWIC benefits, you know, are awesome. So I believe we get 300 or so dollars annually to beef up our personal wellness and self care games. And whether that's buying, you know, gift cards for massages, or haircuts, or gym memberships, or new shoes, and exercise equipment, even to like meditation apps. So we have this credit provided annually that we can take advantage of. I bought a humidifier. That was my big purchase so far. So you know, that's great. Band-aid wellness tips and tricks. But I think that NWF could approach wellness and all these varying benefits more equitably, and perhaps a little more creatively and realizing that there is an unequitable varying amounts of emotional and physical labor that goes into our work, and also financial hardship, especially for the on the ground folks and the regional centers and this burnout. And so I think to be truly equitable, we need to take into account everyone's individual work plans or positions or you know, individual situations and really kind of tweak benefits one way or another to really meet needs. Yeah, so I think we definitely have lots of room to grow. But I'm very appreciative of the steps taken so far.

Kaila Drayton
Can I mention something about the TWIC card? Because I think that this illustrates how challenging it is to provide wellness opportunities to staff. So the TWIC card, the origins of that actually came from the Black ERG and the recommendations that we wrote to the executive team, and we found that there was no support to practice alternative medicines, to practice, you know, Indigenous medicine, to practice these anything regarding wellness that wasn't completely westernized. And we said, you know, can we get, can we have a broader health care coverage? Can we add some providers, can we do something different? But it is a very different outcome that we have this TWIC card, we get it you know, in a good year, we'll get it twice a year this year. We get it twice a year. It's it's $300 each time and so $600 total, and that was meant for folks to be able to apply it to alternative medicine. It really turns out that the TWIC card, you can basically use it for anything but alcohol and weed very unfortunately. So that I think that when we look at wellness, and what is current and present, the path to even get there is so different- the origin is so different from the outcome. And I'm hoping that one day we can get even more specific, right, Natalie, to your point to be able to tailor wellness and what we offer to staff on an individual basis.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, thank you so much for that context. That's, I think, a really helpful way to frame this as well that these initiatives come from an equity framework and wanting to broaden accessibility to take care of ourselves. Yeah. Tiffany, do you have anything else you'd like to add?

Tiffany Jones
No, I just will say soul work, S O U L, is, is complex, it's dynamic, and it's rooted. And I think we're all- and I think someone mentioned this earlier, self value, right? Hillary, self value is the work. So that journaling, that therapy, that getting called out, feedback from friends, all of that is rooted in even how we want to be helped. And sometimes we don't even know that for ourselves. And I appreciate the Black ERG and other folks in the organization who are challenging and not even reflecting on themselves, but bringing that into community for us to continue that journey. This is all a journey. So this is not judgment, I think we're very appreciative. I'm very appreciative because this is one of the few organizations I know doing it. So I think the journey is to continue pushing to continue doing that for ourselves, but also the community that we're in, and that's the NWF family. So I, I just want to mention that soul work and if anyone in community or regardless of where you are, you don't have to be in an a Black and brown community to do environmental justice work. You don't have to be- wherever you are on this planet, you can find your community, and that will ground you in your own self care and self help and wellness, but also be able to be filled enough to bring that to your work and everything else. So just wanted to add that.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, thank you.

Kaila Drayton
So, we've talked a little bit about NWF's current emphasis on wellness, this kind of transition into centering the employee, the whole body wellness. I'm wondering if there's anything that has changed that has directly impacted each of you for the better, and what that was and what it looks like now. And Tiffany, I'd love to start with you.

Tiffany Jones
I've loved to be honest, the open facing transparency with HR, just really elevating joy in this transparency of we're all in this together. It's a small improvement. But I really do feel that was a huge tick up or just kind of a check on my list of like, I can have a conversation with HR. And I can talk about my health issues and things that are maybe nuanced to me, and I've had a nuanced situation this past year, where there hasn't been a policy and NWF around a particular issue. But me having the conversation with HR to say, 'Hey, I think if someone else is gonna go through what I went through, it'll be really great to be able to have something in hand to say, we'll support and wrap our arms around that particular situation.' I'm not going to mention it. But I think just that transparency in that openness and conversation of, 'hey, it's not there, but we're willing to do something' is a huge deal. Then when we're talking about other organizations and other even corporate spaces and other places of work where that is not even possible, I think that has been a huge, heartfelt moment for me to be able to have a conversation. And I want to shout out a lot of people who are behind the scenes, you never really see them. But they're really having those frank, honest, open conversations with vulnerable things that people are open and saying, 'hey, it already happened for me, but I don't want it to happen to someone else, can we walk through and figure out some solutions.' So solution oriented, growth mindset, those are things that I've really seen happen at NWF and I know we have a long way to go. And man, I got solutions on creative avenues that we can talk about. But also the cup has to be filled. And we should not move forward when our cup is not filled, because we will not give our best. And I really believe about giving best and we just need to make sure that we're collectively thinking about that.

Kaila Drayton
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Tiffany. Hillary, any changes in how we view wellness, and have those changes impacted how you show up or your life in general?

Hillary Fenrich
Thanks for the question. I feel very similarly to Tiffany in the sense that I really feel that the last two years NWF has really tried to open the doors. If you say 'this does not feel good to me, I need additional support here,' that conversation might be long, that conversation might need to involve a lot of people, might need a lot of sign offs. But in general, I have noticed that NWF has been trying wherever those ideas come from, to listen to those ideas and potentially carry them forward. NWF is trying to be open to those ideas. Now it goes to your point, Natalie, those ideas that brain power, that strategy to make the organization better should be compensated. I think we should be real clear on that, that there are a lot of people doing really good work, who are not being recognized for that work and are not being compensated for that work. But they are putting long hours and a lot of brainpower into that relationship building into that strategy around especially wellness and equity and justice. And they should be compensated for that. So just to put that out there very, very clearly. I also think when we're talking about wellness, and we're talking about rest, and we're talking about this shift at NWF, we have to recognize that that's counterculture to United States culture, and it might be difficult, but rest and wellness and a healing journey is essential parts of what we're trying to do that is one of the bases of the movement. Like you're saying, Tiffany, if you can't fill your cup, you're definitely not going to be able to pour for anybody else. So it's not an additive. It's not something that you do on the side that maybe you have 30 minutes here and there. It is some of the base of the work. And so I think we need to see a shift NWF to recognize that and to build in that space where people can really sit and have that time to strategize. What does a healing journey look like? How can we support that for NWF? Not just Band Aid solutions, like you're mentioning Nicole, but real, authentic solutions. And I think a first step, which Tiffany I had just talked about earlier, is to actually do an external audit, these wellness benefits that we're talking about, let's do an external audit and see how many people can take advantage of that those half day Fridays that we had mentioned earlier, unfortunately, I don't always feel like I can take those half day Fridays due to my workload. So an external audit on workload, how many hours you're working? What is your financial compensation? How are you using those benefits? Do you have accessibility to those benefits, not just you have those benefits, but you can actually use those benefits, knowing about your workload and your hours. I think that would be really interesting, because that's the foundation. We can have these Band Aid solutions. We can talk about wellness, and feel good about our progress. We need to really look at how is that reaching staff, because it's all part of this movement, that healing journey. It's not an additive, it is essential to the movement.

Kaila Drayton
I love that you're saying that Hillary because oftentimes it does feel like wellness, and equity and justice feel like oh, the nice-to-haves, like, that's cute. If we're grounded and solid as an organization, then we can do these little ancillary, cutesy projects on the side. And I 100% agree that wellness and equity should be baked into the foundation and aren't just you know, a little scarf that you put on at the end. Natalie, to you, has there been any changes in wellness that have impacted yourself, your work, your life for the better?

Natalie Cohen
Yeah, definitely. Just the past two years and how heavy the world has been and navigating COVID and unrest and I feel very supported. And really appreciate the emails from the different employee resource groups and Collin's open transparency-

Nicole Litwiller
Hey, Editing Nicole here. It’s been a while since I’ve popped into an episode, but I just wanted to offer some quick clarification on who Natalie is talking about when she’s referring to Collin. Collin is Collin O’Mara, he’s the president and CEO of the National Wildlife Federation. Okay, back to the interview.

Natalie Cohen
-and really encouraging people to take time that they need to work on wellness and well being. So you know, I think just feeling very supported throughout my time at NWF but also the unlimited wellness days. At first, I was pretty hesitant to actually put them on my timecard because I'm like 'what is this gonna look like? And do they actually mean this?' And I still have sick days in in the in UltiPro, should I use my sick days and then I use my wellness days? And like you know, it's just like, I don't know what to do. So leaning into that uncomfortability and saying you know it's okay to have a mental health day, it's okay to not want to open my laptop some mornings like that is a-okay an honor that and like, take my ass to the park, right? Like, go have a early happy hour. I don't know something you know, like, and it's okay. And so leaning into that self value and making sure that you're honoring that has been really great. Good practice and exercise for sure in self advocacy and also shout out to the Future of Work Committee who's been working so hard and tirelessly. Knowing that I won't have to return to the office full time has done such wonders on my mental and physical health and not having to be in a car two hours a day is just so huge as well. And back to you know, my favorite summertime wellness activity allows me to have time for my coffee on the porch in the morning, which is so crucial to my mental health. So yeah, these changes that have been implemented so far have certainly impacted my life.

Kaila Drayton
Excellent. Thank you for that.

Nicole Litwiller
So those are all the questions we have for y'all actually. And I just want to say that I've really appreciated how honest you've all been on this podcast, you've shared your appreciation about the ways that NWF has been prioritizing wellness, but also been really open and vulnerable, about the ways that that has been applied inequitably across the organization and the ways that we really have a lot of work to do to make sure that everyone truly can be well. And then, as a result, show up to our work better, too, as more whole human beings. So I just I have a lot of gratitude for the ways that you all have shown up today and show up at this organization day after day. So thank you so much. But I want to just give you all an opportunity to share any closing thoughts, any remarks that you'd like to leave the listeners with today. So to do that, I will pass it over to Tiffany first.

Tiffany Jones
Y'all are the bomb.com okay, listen. Y'all have individually kept me sane. I've had the pleasure of meeting Nicole. And I mean, Natalie, you're you know, we be more all day every day. Kaila, Hillary, I gotta see you in real life very soon. And I'm gonna lift up some kind of all staff retreat one day in the future of NWF an all staff something. But this has been a pleasure. Kaila, Nicole, thank you for pouring your heart and your passion and energy and effort into these questions, facilitation, all of that and showing up just so beautifully and graciously in your leadership. I really just appreciate it. But Natalie and Hillary, you y'all, you don't know. So it's just great to be here.

Kaila Drayton
Thanks, Tiffany.

Nicole Litwiller
Yes, thank you. Hillary, I'll pass it over to you.

Hillary Fenrich
I just want to echo Tiffany. Thank you both for this opportunity. I think, as I was saying wellness rest, and this healing journey is so critical to what we're trying to do. And to be up to the change that we want to see in the United States. And having the space talk about this having the space to talk about equity and justice and have real conversations about how we're doing, and where we need to see additional support and funds and time, I think is so critical. So thank you Kaila, thank you, Nicole, for just having this conversation today. It's been awesome, huge appreciation for both of you and your leadership.

Nicole Litwiller
Thank you so much. And Natalie, any final thoughts you'd like to share?

Natalie Cohen
I'm just so happy to see and to really feel NWF centering people and its employees. And I'm excited to continue on this equity and justice journey, and all that that looks like. And just thank you for allowing us time to share our stories and our testimonies on here.

♫ Music Transition ♫

Kaila Drayton
So really, in depth conversation about wellness, wellness at NWF, what it looks like to offer wellness benefits, and what people's personal wellness and personal self care looks like. Nicole, your thoughts?

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, I mean, what a great group of people to have this conversation with. I really appreciated the kind of holistic approach to this conversation that everyone brought. I think one thing that is really sticking with me from that conversation is the idea that when we approach and try and fight against systemic issues, systemic oppression, that is a wellness initiative, because wellness is about, to me, being whole and being our most liberated, authentic selves. And so anything that prevents that, such as systemic racism, internalized homophobia, patriarchy, those things prevent our most full well being. And so I really appreciated the emphasis on that because I think as I said in the interview, we don't often see that conversation in our social media feeds. There are certainly some pages that I'll reference later that are really prioritizing that and I really appreciate it, but often wellness or self care is about the little fixes that are like very personal, which are great and fully support those efforts too. But I think framing it more for myself as both a personal and a systemic thing is really helpful for my own understanding of what wellness means.

Kaila Drayton
Yeah. And I think that, at least within NWF and I suspect that this is the same in other organizations is, when is wellness used as kind of a pitcher of water on a wildfire? When it's used as kind of this, like, let's placate the staff, because they're saying they're burnt out, so we're gonna give them a week off rather than addressing the root cause of that burnout. And so I think that wellness is two sided, right, there's this side that benefits the employee. And then there also needs to be an examination of what is causing the need for the wellness benefit to begin with, in some cases. And that's the piece that's the part of the work that I would love to see NWF really dive into.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, I think that's such a great point. And I love that metaphor of a pitcher of water on a wildfire. I feel like that's so relevant. And I think, to your point, we can't take NWF out of the context of the larger society. And so when our guests named that these initiatives like prioritizing wellness, prioritizing rest, prioritizing ourselves are countercultural, that's so true. And and so I do want to offer my gratitude to NWF for prioritizing wellness in the ways that it is, even though many of those things may be surface level fixes.

Kaila Drayton
I think, what is also challenging, and here is where I think NWF has done some things right and still has a ways to go, is where we see this, this intersection of white supremacy culture and capitalism. So you, yeah, we'll get you can take the wellness benefits, but as long as you're making us money, right. And so I think that's part of what folks were talking about is people who are tied to grant deliverables and to restricted revenue, they need to come through with the deliverables that they promised the funder that they promised maybe their communities or partners that they're working with, or other clients. And so now, your workload is at odds with the wellness benefits that are being offered. And that's when you get the instance of 'Well, that's nice that NWF offers XY and Z. I can't take advantage of any of it.' And so again, that's the area, I think that's NWF's next step is looking at access.

Nicole Litwiller
Yes, yeah. Equitable wellness.

Kaila Drayton
Right, exactly, who can participate? And who can't? Who, if they participated in any of these wellness benefits, it would cost them? So not to say that as a light topic, or something that I think is going to be easily solved in a 30 minute meeting. But I do think that we are on the precipice of really making some meaningful changes at NWF some meaningful changes in equity, some meaningful changes in our benefits. And I think that this is one of the next conversations that needs to happen.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, absolutely. I really appreciate you bringing up the point of the intersection of capitalism and white supremacy. And again, those are two systems that you can't separate from one another, they have grown and intertwined. And they're like, the worst kind of weeds out there.

Kaila Drayton
And they're growing alongside patriarchy, so...

Nicole Litwiller
Yes, yes, it's all there wound up together. But I wanted to bring in a quote from the Nap Ministry. And for anybody who isn't familiar with the Nap Ministry, go follow them on social media, I have learned so much from them about how rest is a form of resistance against these systems of capitalism and white supremacy. But I found a quote from them that I'd like to share, because I feel like it speaks really well to what we've been talking about. And they're talking about the context of their own work. "It is about a deep unraveling from white supremacy and capitalism. These two systems are violent and evil. History tells us this and our present living shows this. Rest pushes back and disrupts a system that views human bodies as a tool for production and labor. It is a counter narrative. We know that we are not machines, we are divine." And I just love quote, like I have goosebumps.

Kaila Drayton
Yeah.

Nicole Litwiller
I just really appreciated that quote, because I love the way that it acknowledges our wholeness and divinity and beauty as humans and I think often, we can easily get caught up in this loop of we are purely on this planet to exist as a labor source and that's what is ingrained in us from a very early age. I have only worked a handful of jobs and I can feel it in myself, like it is deeply ingrained within me that like my productivity equals my worth. And it's kind of a daily undoing, that is required to remind myself that my worth is that I am here on this planet, I have just as much worth as the birds and the grass and the flowers, and we are all worthy of existing wholly. Yeah, I just really appreciated how that quote kind of named that dynamic.

Kaila Drayton
Well, and in your reflection, it kind of makes me think of how we see ourselves as separate, right, separate from nature, from the great outdoors from wildlife, because we see ourselves as this like master species who has taken over and like we intrinsically have more value. I wonder what it would look like if you couldn't lean on your occupation to give you any kind of external validation. I think that we would have a lot more artists and free spirited folks who aren't caught up in, in corporate America. Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just speaking to myself.

Nicole Litwiller
It is not just you.

Kaila Drayton
It made me think of listen, I watch absolute trash TV, right. And so I was watching this show where these people have gone through really traumatic experiences. And at the end, these people are like, and I was back to work and nine days, and I'm like, Are you? Are you kidd-? I would quit my job. Listen, I am ready to quit my job at the slightest inconvenience. If I stub my toe in the morning, I'm taking a wellness day. I will not. I refuse. But you're telling me these people have gone through trauma. And the first thing they say is, 'and I was back to work and nine days,' you've got to be kidding me!

Nicole Litwiller
Wow, yeah. Yeah, that's such a good point. And I think we judge ourselves a lot for taking a break. And like blame ourselves for being the issue. And the issue is not ourselves. The issue is these systems that expect everything from us, even when we're not doing well. And for some reason, I'm thinking about bears. We don't judge bears for hibernating during the winter, we should not judge ourselves for needing rest, it is a natural thing that we all deserve.

Kaila Drayton
That's a very, that's a very valid observation. I also think part of the oppression and the inequity in the system is not allowing people the wages to support rest, right, like, like, I'm making these comments that these people are saying they were back to work in nine days, but I don't know their circumstances. Who knows if they could have taken time off, if they had the means to take time off? Maybe nine days while they were recuperating in the hospital was unpaid. There's a lot of nuance there to how much people are making that just adds to the different layers of complexity.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, totally. And I think that just goes back to the point that when we fight against these systems, find ways to counter white supremacy culture and capitalism, we are advocating for our wellness as a whole humanity. And I get really excited by seeing ways that people are doing that creatively.

Kaila Drayton
Yeah. I'm wondering if our listeners want to reflect on their own wellness? How are you creating the space and time to be able to center yourself center your own wellness? And how are you creating an environment on your team, especially if you're a manager, where your team has the ability to use the wellness benefits that are offered? Are you making sure that you're creating a supportive environment? What else should listeners be thinking about?

Nicole Litwiller
I think I would just encourage listeners to practice reminding yourself that you deserve to rest and that you are not on this earth to be a work robot. You are here to just be you. And I really hope that we can all cultivate together a greater culture of wellness and rest in all the ways that that looks like including on the personal level all the way up to the systemic level. So yeah, just remind yourself that you deserve to rest.

Kaila Drayton
Be relentless and take a nap. I think that that might be my new life's motto.

Nicole Litwiller
I love it. I love it. I'm gonna go paint it after this. Well, thank you so much for listening, everybody, today. If you have any thoughts that you'd like to share with us, our email is in the show notes. And be sure to join us next week for our next episode.

Kaila Drayton
Thanks y'all.

♫ Outro Music ♫

Nicole Litwiller
This podcast is created and hosted by Kaila Drayton and Nicole Litwiller. It is produced by Nicole Litwiller. Stephen Angello is our editor and audio engineer. All the music you hear throughout the podcast is composed by Luke Litwiller. Thank you to the equity and justice team and many others within the National Wildlife Federation for your support in the creation of this podcast, and for your work towards equity and justice. If you have any reflections or comments you'd like to share with us, please send an email to seedsofculturechange@nwf.org. And don't forget to like, comment and subscribe so that other agents of organizational change can find this podcast. Thanks for listening, now go plant some seeds of change.

♫ Outro Music ♫