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Meet your co-hosts, Kaila Drayton and Nicole Litwiller, and get the lay of the land for this season of Seeds of Culture Change!

Speakers

Kaila Drayton – VP of Operations
Nicole Litwiller – Equity and Justice Storytelling Fellow
Chanté Coleman – VP, Equity and Justice

Transcript

♫ Theme Music ♫

Nicole Litwiller
Hello and welcome to our very first episode of Seeds of Cultural Change, a podcast where we are discussing the National Wildlife Federation's journey towards equity and justice. My name is Nicole.

Kaila Drayton
And I'm Kaila.

Nicole Litwiller
And we are going to be your two co-hosts throughout the season, guiding you through the journey of National Wildlife Federation's work towards equity and justice. Kaila, it's our first episode. How are you feeling?

Kaila Drayton
I am a little incredulous that NWF has endorsed me having a microphone, let alone a podcast. But I'm thrilled. How are you doing?

Nicole Litwiller
I'm really excited. This has been such a long time coming and thinking back to our very first conversation together where you had just reached out to connect and get to know me when I joined the Federation. And I mentioned I was interested in starting a podcast and you said, 'I am too'

Kaila Drayton
And that was it.

Nicole Litwiller
It's gone from there. It's really exciting that this is officially happening and yeah, get to share it with folks.

Kaila Drayton
What are you most excited about in regards to the podcast?

Nicole Litwiller
Oh, there's so much. I am really excited about a lot of the honest sharing that we get to do through the interviews, we get to talk to lots of staff and hear their perspectives. And I think that'll be really meaningful. I'm also excited for hopefully the impact that this podcast can have both internally within the National Wildlife Federation, helping folks get a better understanding of what the equity and justice journey has looked like. But then also helping to be a bit of a guide or roadmap for other organizations or other agents of change that are seeking to invest in equity work in their own contexts. I would say those are a few of the things that I'm really excited about. What about you?

Kaila Drayton
Yeah, I would agree. I think anyone who knows me knows that I really value frank and candid conversations. And I think that we have a lot of those through this season. And I'm really excited to share those conversations with folks. And I think, for me if any of these episodes helps one single person reconsider the way they think about things, the way that they approach equity and justice in their work, if their eyes are opened to an issue that they never considered before, I think for me, that will be success.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, definitely. I think that is very beautiful. Yeah, I love thinking about the ripple effect that it could have too.

Kaila Drayton
Yeah, definitely.

Nicole Litwiller
All right, so as listeners, you might be wondering, why us, why me and Kaila? Why NWF? Kaila, could you tell us a little bit about yourself how you identify what made you want to co host this podcast just so listeners can get to know you a little bit?

Kaila Drayton
Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in Dalton, Massachusetts, a super, super small town, very white town in rural Massachusetts, in Berkshire County. And I grew up on 50 acres. And so I was outdoors all the time. I was surrounded by nature, my family had a garden plot. My grandparents had a garden plot. And so this concept of farm-to-table was kind of in my life before it became a thing.

Nicole Litwiller
Before it was a hashtag?

Kaila Drayton
Exactly. Before some person with a handlebar mustache told me it was cool. And so there were a lot of things that I grew up with that when I then entered the environmental realm in the professional sense, I was finding that I was excluded from. So you know, I grew up watching birds. And then I came into the environmental realm. And it's like, 'oh, well, you you don't know the Latin name. So you're not a naturalist,' you know, and I found all these doors to be closed to me. And so I became very interested in the exclusivity and the lack of access for people who look like me. I'm a Black woman, I was probably the only the only Black woman in my class growing up. And so I was no stranger to being on the outside, to being on the fringes of who was being centered. And so that is why I feel that equity work is near and dear to my heart, because I do feel a sense of responsibility to use my positional power to open the door even further for the people of color who are coming up behind me. What about you? What about your background aids in this equity injustice work?

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, well, I grew up with a very different experience than you in multiple ways. I similarly grew up in a small town, but in the Midwest in the middle of Kansas, and it was also a very white town. I was one of those white people in this very white town. And growing up, I remember having just oodles of time to be able to spend outside playing on the playground, playing in the climbing tree that we had in our front yard. Shout out to that tree, best part of my childhood.

Kaila Drayton
Do you have pictures of this tree?

Nicole Litwiller
I do.

Kaila Drayton
I need to see this. Show notes.

Nicole Litwiller
It's actually my logo for my art page on social media. So if you want to try and find me, yeah. But yeah, so I remember being exposed to the outdoors in those ways through a lot of playfulness. And then I also remember, we made trips to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons, and went to Colorado most summers both for summer camp for me, and then as family trips as well. And those experiences just gave me a significant appreciation for the natural world. And it wasn't until I grew older, and started to understand some of the barriers that folks who look different than me have in accessing the outdoors that I started putting some of those connections together. And I had always been drawn to social justice work and learning more about these systems that are affecting our lives. And so as I dove more into some of those studies, I felt like there was this distinct separation between social justice issues and climate issues. And I felt like I had to choose between one or the other. And it wasn't until I heard some stories from some speakers that came onto my college campus talking about their experiences as people of color in the Global South, and how climate change was impacting them that I really saw those connections being made that social justice, and this fight for people and this fight for the planet are one in the same. And that was a really powerful moment for me, in my own personal belief system, my own understanding of the world, and then also my professional trajectory as well. And so there's a lot of factors that have played into my interest for being involved in equity and justice work. I would also say that, over the years, just starting to understand my own place in these movements, and in in these systems of oppression as a white woman has been a really challenging journey, and also a really important and healing and meaningful journey. And there's just so much that I have to continue learning about myself and about how I fit into these societal constructs. For me, it's been an experience of once I started learning some of these things, I couldn't stop. You start learning, and then you realize how much you still have to learn. And, and so it's an ongoing journey. And I think that's something folks will probably hear expressed throughout the season as well from some of our guests. That's a little bit about me, and why I'm interested in these topics. Yeah.

Kaila Drayton
And I think, Nicole, that you also touched on one of our kind of sub themes, if you will, of the podcast, which is this interconnectedness, not only to one another, regardless of identity, but also to the natural world. Right, you know, NWF got some critiques when we first started thinking about this equity and justice work. And folks called it mission creep. 'Why are you focusing on people and equity amongst identities when you're a wildlife organization?' And I think that this podcast really lays out the reasons why we're doing that.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, absolutely. So I feel like maybe guests have a bit of a hang on who you and I are outside of the professional world. But Kaila, can you share a little bit about what your role is within NWF so that folks have a grasp on that as well?

Kaila Drayton
Yeah, so I am the Vice President of Operations, which means I do a whole lot of telling people what to do. A bulk of the work that I do is looking at the power and the processes that we put in place, particularly around money, right, I think money is kind of the critical keystone in a lot of the decisions that are made around the organization. And so I take a look at decisions being made and processes being put into place and make sure that they are equitable and accessible and that they benefit as many groups of folks as possible. And so that is how I apply equity and justice to to my everyday job. So I've been with NWF almost a decade, it'll be 10 years in November. But Nicole, you're relatively new. Can you tell folks when you came in and what your role is?

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, so I started in September of 2021. And I was hired on as Equity and Justice Storytelling Fellow. So I'm housed within the Equity and Justice Team at the National Wildlife Federation. And my role essentially was to help support telling the story of the National Wildlife Federation's equity journey. So to do that this podcast was one of the ideas that came up in my brainstorming, Kaila graciously offered to be a co host. And-

Kaila Drayton
Did I offer or did I just tell you, I was gonna show up? Let's be honest.

Nicole Litwiller
Well, either way, I was like, ecstatic that it wouldn't just be me. And let's be real, you have drastically improved the quality of this podcast with your presence.

Kaila Drayton
You are kind.

Nicole Litwiller
So yeah, in my work, I've been talking to a lot of people trying to understand what this journey has looked like, and then have been trying to put all of those stories together in a way that people can read or hear and help decipher what it's looks like over the past few years. So hopefully, that gives you a bit of a sense of who we both are and why we're hosting this podcast. And since this is a podcast focused on NWF's journey with equity and justice, who better to help us kick off our first episode of the season than Chanté Coleman, who helps lead our equity and justice work. So here are a few words from Chanté.

♫ Music Transition ♫

Chanté Coleman
Hello fellow justice activists and friends. I am excited to welcome you to the National Wildlife Federation's equity and justice storytelling project. My name is Chanté Coleman and I am the Federation's Vice President of Equity and Justice. Thank you for joining us on this journey as we tell our story of where we are going and where we have been as we practice becoming an equitable and anti racist organization. Before I begin, I want to thank every person who has contributed to our equity work over the years, and to every person who has made this podcast a reality. You know who you are, thank you for committing to this journey and helping in countless ways. Equity is like climbing a mountain. When we look down, we see that we have come so far. And when we look up, we see that we still have a long way to go. Depending on which frame of mind you are in the work can either feel daunting or empowering. My hope is that you will listen with an open mind and with an open heart, holding the confidence that we have made progress, along with the commitment that we have more work to do together. The National Wildlife Federation is an 85 year old organization traditionally known for our work on wildlife and focus on strict conservation issues. However, we have come to understand that in order for wildlife and people to thrive in a rapidly changing world, we must become an organization that actively challenges systemic racism, and oppression. Because these issues are deeply interconnected. We knew when we began this journey, that it would fundamentally change who we are, and that is happening. As you listen and learn, you will hear some key themes. First, we are uplifting a variety of stories. We do this because we should all see ourselves in this work. We know we are most successful when this work is co-owned, and when power is shared. Also, storytelling is a powerful way to share information. Second, you will hear a focus on lessons learned. We are not perfect. In fact, we embrace imperfection and learning from our failures. We talk about what we learned in the spirit of growth and doing better for ourselves and the people around us. Third, you will hear about the importance of repairing relationships. Again, we all make mistakes. And we cannot do this work alone, we must be in relationship with one another to persevere. And last, we will talk about how difficult this work can be. It's difficult because of the harm and continued unequal burden on people of color, and other people with marginalized identities. It's not easy because we are doing counter cultural and counter structural work in a system where the status quo is upheld and rewarded. To be successful in building collective liberation, we each have an important role to play. I ask that you sit with your feelings after listening to this podcast, and embrace discomfort and curiosity that come up and understand that the road ahead will be hard and meaningful. We urge you to find your love for your colleagues and other humans for this work and make a commitment to keep climbing. And we'll be there alongside you. We hope you will take this opportunity to commit to the personal work that it takes for each of us to shape the culture, identify and address in justices, and be strong allies at the National Wildlife Federation and in the world. Thank you so much, and enjoy listening

♫ Music Transition ♫

Kaila Drayton
Now that you've learned a little bit about us, we want to shift and talk about the content of the podcast. But first, Nicole, do you want to explain how we landed on the name 'Seeds of Culture Change'?

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, for sure. This was a product of lots of collaboration, lots of input. I, for one, am really bad at naming things. So I needed a lot of humans around me to figure out how to name this podcast. But I think 'Seeds of Culture Change' felt really relevant and connected to me as I was thinking about the stories that I've been hearing from people about the equity and justice journey. And I think about that, for a couple of reasons. This journey has been similar to that of planting a seed and tending that seed and helping it grow. Because that's kind of what we do with equity work, we plant a seed with folks, and we have to tend that and care for the relationships and help that seed grow. Hopefully, the right conditions are in place for the seed to grow into something and eventually bear fruits. Sometimes what the seed produces is different than what we thought it would in the first place. It was a mislabeled seed, perhaps. Sometimes it's exactly what we expected, but maybe it took a little bit longer than we were hoping for. But ultimately, almost never is it a immediate response to the seed being planted. We very rarely see results right after we plant the seed. And so that metaphor of planting a seed felt really relevant to the work that we've been doing, and how that's shown up in the organization in various ways.

Kaila Drayton
I love that metaphor, Nicole. And I also makes me think of, I just recently planted sunflowers, and went out and found that a rat had come along and eaten all of them. I find that to also be a metaphor, th rat being white supremacy culture, and my seeds being the equity work that we're trying to-

Nicole Litwiller
White supremacy culture is persistent, and it does its best to not let us succeed.

Kaila Drayton
It's pervasive, and sometimes you might be tricked into thinking that it's cute, but it's not and it will ruin everything.

Nicole Litwiller
I love that. I think it's relevant.

Kaila Drayton
We do want to be very clear that we are not trying to cover every theme of equity and justice in this podcast, we are only trying to cover the pieces of work that NWF has been addressing. And currently, NWF is really looking at equity when it comes to racial equity, and particularly anti blackness. So we are not going to be covering topics like ableism, which is rampant in the environmental movement. It's something that we haven't scratched the surface on yet. And also, Nicole and I would not be the individuals that would be best suited to talk about it. So we want to be very clear that there are going to be missing themes from this podcast and from the conversations that we're having. Hopefully as NWF expands its work in equity and justice, one day we'll be able to have podcast episodes on the deeper themes of equity and justice. But for right now, we'll be focusing on racial equity.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah. And I also want to note that when Kaila and I started planning this podcast, Kaila, you made a comment about not wanting it to be a podcast that is looking through rose-colored glasses. And that has really stuck with me because I totally agree like we, we really want to be honest about the journey that NWF has been on and there are gaps there. We are not perfect, we are not going to try and portray this image of perfection because we're not that and so we're going to try and be truthful. We want to celebrate the successes that we've had so far, and also hold NWF accountable to where we hope to see it going in the future, which kind of gets me into our arc of the season just to give you a little heads up for what you can expect throughout the season. We're going to start out with a bit of historical context, to really get us settled into where we are now so that we understand where we've come from. And that's going to involve looking at the conservation movement, looking at the founding of the National Wildlife Federation. And then from there, we'll move into the bulk of the National Wildlife Federation's equity and justice work, highlighting on some of the themes that have been present throughout this journey. And then finally, we'll close out the season with some dreams for what NWF can become in the future.

Kaila Drayton
One of the things that is very important to both Nicole and I is accountability. And so as Nicole said, we are not perfect human beings. There may be points in this podcast where we say something that someone holding a particular identity may find harmful. Our email is in the show notes. It's something that we take very seriously and so if something has been mentioned on this podcast that is harmful, please contact us. And we will absolutely do the necessary work and repair to make it right. Here's where I want to make a distinction. I'm talking about harm, please do not email me because you don't agree that kettle corn is trash, or that you don't think that Beyoncé is the best entertainer of all time - all time, not just living, all time, please.

Nicole Litwiller
All time.

Kaila Drayton
All time. Listen, those are not the things that we are trying to discuss via email, however, again, harm we take very seriously. And we will do everything we can to address it.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah. So we also want to just note that throughout the season, we're going to be hearing stories from lots of different staff throughout the National Wildlife Federation. And I really believe that stories and personal experiences are a form of truth, I don't think they are often held in that way, especially in a world where we prioritize data and like, quote, unquote, hard facts. But I think storytelling is a really beautiful form of truth. And there are many truths out there. And so I want to just acknowledge that the experiences that we're hearing from the perspectives may not necessarily reflect that of the National Wildlife Federation.

Kaila Drayton
We are talking to folks across the organization who are at different points in their equity journey. And so there might be perspectives that you really agree with that resonate with you. And then there might be moments where you might not agree with something that someone says, you may feel like, there are some caveats, or maybe they've got some more learning to do. And that's okay. We specifically looked for people who were at varying points, we didn't want to just hear from folks at the top of the organization or folks that are leading the equity and justice work, we wanted to hear from folks across the organization as a whole.

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, and there's some really awesome storytelling and shared learning that I think happens when we come together from our different perspectives and different points in our journeys.

♫ Music Transition ♫

Nicole Litwiller
So we want to close out this first episode with y'all by talking a bit about community conversation agreements. At NWF, we as a staff have agreed on a shared list of community conversation agreements that we are all committed to living into when we're sharing space together. And so we want to invite you as listeners to also practice living into those while you're engaging with the podcast, whether that's in an email that you're sending to us with some feedback, or in just how you're noticing your own responses as you're listening. We're not going to read all of the agreements in this space, but we will put a link to them in our show notes so that you can refer to them on your own time. But for now, Kaila, I'm wondering if you have one agreement that you especially want to point out to encourage people to pay attention to throughout this podcast?

Kaila Drayton
Yeah, I think adopting a growth mindset, particularly with what we just talked about it, there are a range of folks with varying equity competencies, and really being able to hold space for everyone, regardless of where they are in their journey, I think is really important when listening to this podcast. So that is one that I would say, is essential. So Nicole, in looking at the list of agreements, what do you think listeners should adopt?

Nicole Litwiller
Yeah, I'm really drawn to the 'practice both/and thinking' agreement and this particular moment in time. And I think especially considering some of what we were talking about before with there being multiple truths, different people's experiences being different forms of truth. So trying to remember that somebody may say one thing, for example, we may critique the conservation movement. And, it can also be true that the conservation movement has done some cool things, both of those things can be true. And so trying not to look at things too black-and-white or either/or, and acknowledge that there can be a both/and instead of just one way or the other.

Kaila Drayton
I love that one. And I find that it's a really great way to look at history as a whole, right, like our founding fathers did really important things and they were all horrible people. So to being able to hold space for both is really important. Thanks for sharing that. I think that that brings us to the end of our disclaimers, to the end of everything that our legal team is requiring us to say. Again, I really actually cannot believe that I'm being allowed on a podcast. But, next week we will get into interviews. Next week we'll talk to Nizhooni Hurd and Rebeca Villegas about the history of the conservation movement, who was included, who was erased, and why it matters today.

Nicole Litwiller
Join us every Wednesday for new episodes and we can't wait to have you follow along with us for the rest of the season.

♫ Outro music ♫

Nicole Litwiller
This podcast is created and hosted by Kaila Drayton and Nicole Litwiller. It is produced by Nicole Litwiller. Stephen Angello is our editor and audio engineer. All the music you hear throughout the podcast is composed by Luke Litwiller. Thank you to the Equity and Justice Team and many others within the National Wildlife Federation for your support in the creation of this podcast, and for your work towards equity and justice. If you have any reflections or comments you'd like to share with us, please send an email to seedsofculturechange@nwf.org. Please visit www.nwf.org and click the donate button if you'd like to financially support the National Wildlife Federation's work. And don't forget to like comment and subscribe so that other agents of organizational change can find this podcast. Thanks for listening now go plant some seeds of change.

Kaila Drayton
I'm gonna go catch that rat. Goodbye.